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I know plenty of kids for whom this little chainsaw corpse cutey would be pure silliness. But for these two young people who glorify dark emotions and impulses, if can be seen in hindsight as a sign of desensitization.
Kids like these two cannot see "Saw". Violence is not in proper context for them. We need "Saw" to be too much for teens. Overwhelming horror and revulsion is the appropriate reaction. I want to argue that such flicks are too much for anyone, but I'm partial to zombie flicks myself, so, er, I'll refrain. Well, except to say that the subtleties are tremendously important. Scenes where pleasure is derived from mutilating and violating others are dangerous for some.
I like zombies because you get the dream-like thrill of horror but the surrealism of some virus making the monsters non-human, or if you identify with the zombie, an irresistable virus absolving you of responsiblity for your flesh-munching ways.
What do you identify with and fantasize? Running, fear informing your muscles? The thrill of survival for someone with a desk job? What if you saw something like "Saw" and identified and fantasized about hurting people in creative ways? That's how some people react.
For lots of kids exposed too young, gruesome horror flicks intensify their desensitization, promote numbness over empathy. It's a big problem, but it doesn't necessarily create criminals. But those rare few who misinterpret the thrill they're getting, go certain places with it at a time their brains are laying down wiring, they will be trouble. We make our monsters.
I think kids need to be protected from concepts they can't process and still maintain their optimism, flexibility and sense of security. Kids' minds are superbly impressionable. Sometimes liberal ideals promote a cold "honesty." Yet 6 year olds should not know about the concept of rape. They're really only ready to have an incomplete idea that adults have something fun and loving called sex. These ages and stages of readiness are more important than we think.
Sometimes we kid ourselves to make parenting easier. That's where all this internet mess comes from. Also sex and violence. Kids need a safe space to take in these radical ideas gradually.
I let my daughter watch Sex in the City too young, about 15. I thought it made sex seem natural and fun. Turns out it did give her mixed up ideas. She's not damaged by it. Still, an authentic discovery phase is ideal. Sounds innocent, but I believe it. Don't need to learn about sex swings before you've really explored and enjoyed second base. Letting her watch it made parenting easier. I think I made justifications to myself so I could argue over and police one less topic with her.
And being a zombie (and vampire and any apocolypse in general) fan, I want to defend the fantasy outlet of horror. But recently I've come to believe that's just me being lazy.
A truly special boy I know, family friend, just freaked me out bad. He's 12, bright, gifted musically, vocally, studious but fantatically so. He's a bit of a radical, likes to push social boundaries, but well within healthy limits. The thing that always strikes me as special about him is how loving and empathetic he is. This of course makes him seem sensitive and vulnerable.
I hate South Park. It uses a technique good therapists use, seeding ideas and leaving them there to mature. South Park drops in seeds of horror young minds are not capable of handling healthily. I happened to watch an episode of South Park with this boy where there was a reference drawn from the Marquis de Sade, coincidentally a reference I struggled with at 23. "People want and do these things?!?! Are people inately evil?"" Ideas can be so potent to forming, sponge-like young minds. We forget how monumental nuances, context, all those subtleties were to us.
So this wonderful boy said to me as he was enthusiastically hugging me during a joyous family occasion, "I'd like to cut you open with a knife and let out all your sparkly stuff!" Talk about alarm bells. We dissected it. To him, it was a cartoony bloom of joy. I'm not going to make more of it than it was, but still, it's telling. Some kids take these thoughts and visuals very seriously, very personally.
I think that old psychological adage of whatever is in your mind being ok, all fantasy being fine as long as it's not action, is old news. That was before pedophile and cannibal advocates and support groups, before movies probing every corner of creative violence. Some thoughts are not ok. I'm starting to believe that. Some thoughts need help. Really, I don't want kids I love associating cutting people open with a knife with loving acts.
Kids' minds are more fragile than it's convenient for us to acknowledge.
Sorry, I write so much it's hard to do more than skim. We were talking about media violence, thus South Park, particularly creative, fearless and seemingly benign as it's a cartoon.
Of course you realize this 19 year old was brought up on all sorts of violent images before he was 19. No one thinks the chainsaw cutie made them do it. For some minds and some circumstances, relentless, commonly accepted, horrifying media violence finds bad lodgings.
The lazy thing to do is say these things have no effect. We see the influences on a daily basis. What's more, criminals tell us how they think about their crimes. Often it's from a desensitized, violence accepting place.
Images of violence impact the mind, just as all experiences do. If we decry violence, then it's not "good" for any kid. And for some kids, it just adds to the wiring that permits them to commit violent acts.
In fact I would put this out there for people to think about. This boyfriend, not the killer one, was 19 years old. This Britney girl was only 16 years old. A three year difference. Under California law if they had sex it would have been unlawful and possibly statutory rape. Will Thomas be prosecuted if it comes out he had sex with the 16 year old?
Maybe if he wouldn't have played with this 16 year old his girlfriend would still be alive. How cruel was he in how he took her virginity then dumped her. In my mind he is just as responsible as Gran for the killing of Krista.
Thomas Hollier belongs in jail too.
Thomas Hollier should be in the cell next to Gran. He manipulated that girl, stole her virginity, then dumped her when his girlfriend moved back. He is an adult of 19 years of age. She is a minor of 16 years old.
If he wouldn't have screwed this child, his girlfriend would still be alive.
I have also recently been talking to my husband about this case...and he feels there is something not making sense as well...I was a student at madera highschool back in 1999 and i snuck off campus at lunch all the time and i didnt get the principals permission...the cops keep saying oh brittany was in school...bullshit she could of easily got picked up gone to kill krista with whoever was involved and got back to school before lunch was over..not saying she did..but they are making it seem like it was impossible for her to be there...I just really hope the police get a clue and start really working on this case..and if hollier was involved brittany is so in love with him that i doubt she will rat him out for now anyways...i dont know i just want everyone who was involved to pay for what they did to this girl and i think the police are just to focused on the 2 there are more then these 2 involved...
Now i say this to you, Jen, with the obvious exception of Simon Johnson, who is, for lack of a better word, atrocious, inconsiderate, and stupid for the comments that he writes. But even he is entitled to his opinions as we all are. But, Simon, next time you leave a comment, grab a dictionary, because even my six year old spells better than you do (hint, hint....DETERMINED, BACKWARDS and, hmmm, PREGNANT) and you make it really really hard to even take you seriously...correction, you have made it impossible to take you seriously so quit taking up space on what is supposed to be an informative site....
To let you guys in on some of the key points:
Thomas was found with Krista on the floor when the detectives arrived. He had called the police and not knowing what to do he laid down next to her.
Krista had been trying to make friends with Navarra, despite the fact that Navarra made it clear she did not want that.
The four of them had hung out together the night before and tried to amend things.
That is when Gran had left something behind so that he had an excuse to go back the next day.
She had wrote on the mirror before getting ready for the day that he was coming over to retrieve the item.
He showed up and she let him in. That is how Gran got in the house.
For those of you that don't live in cental valley this has been all over the news. This information has been said and repeated.
This is nothing new. Man's inhumanity to man, has been happening since man has been on earth. We as a society have made tremendous progress in so many areas, except the way we treat each other.
Maybe that should be our focus for this new century? We are not the civilized society we like to think we are.
I am so sorry for the family's loss, and no matter who or what she was, and no matter what she planned for her future, she was still human, had feelings, and bled like the rest of us would if we were bludgeoned to death. No one deserves to be treated this way. She was someone's daughter.
I have to believe that the perpetrators of this crime will get theirs - if not on this earth and in this time, then in another place at another time. Hopefully, they will be locked up for many years to come, where they can only harm others that have committed similar crimes.
Simon..who ever you are..you need to go get some serious help. You are a bitter disgusting person. You have probably never been to that town yet you think you know all about it. You are still in high school...grow up. This may be a place to discuss and share opinions but it is also a place of compassion. If your mother or sister was murdered like Krista was would you like people to talk about them like you are talking about Krista? Maybe your mother should read your comments. She would probably seek help for you or slap you senseless. It's a good thing you aren't my kid. Show some respect for the dead. You are really sickening. I hope nothing like this ever happens in your family you snot nosed brat.
and just one more thing Simon, when you go and grab that dictionary, look up the word "karma." You can run and you can hide, but it will still find you and God help you when it does.
The bottom line is that this was a senseless murder. There is something wrong with a guy that allows a girl to talk him into murdering someone and there is something wrong with a girl that would go so far as to set up a murder just because she got dumped. Where did it get these two...prison. Was that the end goal? Or did they even think of the consequences? Three families have been damaged beyond repair. One girl is dead and another girl and boy have given up their lives. There is only one question that I would like to ask those killers...."Was It Worth It?"
This crime is horrible and you are right it has affected three families beyond repair. The Holliers will always remember Krista but they will move on from this tragidy with only a few scars.
The Pike's, Gran's and Navarra families have all lost children that they will never get back and why? First of all why would this sixteen year old ask for it to be done then brag about it? Second why would this nineteen year old do it and leave so much evidence pointing back to him?
The evidence listed in the Tribune that made no sense was the condom. Why would he wear a condom to have sex with a dead girl then leaves the condom with DNA evidence at the scene?
Why would he take photos and text message the other girl when he should have known the computers for the phone company would keep records of everything.
Even a casual watcher of the CSI shows know nothing is untracable. There are so many wholes in common sense through-out this case. Nothing makes sense.
If it is true they planned this for weeks, they didn't plan it very well.
You never know when that person will be taken from you forever. Then you will have to live without them. This should be a lesson for everyone to realize the last words you say to someone might be the last words you say to them for all times.
I know if I would have told someone I really loved I could live without them and they were killed, I don't think I could live with myself.
I am in Albany New York . There was a totally senseless triple homicide this week. Three young adults, one 16, one 25 and the other 26, were all murdered by an acquaintance that was drinking with them. The 16 was not drinking, he was playing video games, and was staying there temporarily because his mom had kicked him out, you know, a stupid fight that parents have.
The murderer had been taken in by one of he guys when he needed help. This is how that favor was returned.
The gun was bought on the street. A nod to irresponsible gun owners or dealers.
You will get through this. I imagine you will never forget, how can you? Your lives are forever changed. Thankfully, you had Krista in your lives for the time you did. Our loved ones always leave us before we are ready.
The murderers MUST get the death penalty. Supporting their care in a Prison is totally unjust. These two absolutely have major issues. It is to bad they met each other.
I know that if I was a parent I would want my kids to at least complete high school before they ran off to see what life is like in the big world of Madera.
I am not talking bad about your mother, but I am sure she has relived everything she said. I am sure she regets letting her go. I know I would if I was in her place.
No this case is not just about Krista, Thomas, Britney or Dustin. There are other things that led us to this tragidy as I am sure your mother will agree.
There is nothing to be gained from discussing what happened in the past between Krista and her Mom. Regrets are always there when someone dies, even if it is natural causes. Regrets can seem immeasurable under these circumstances. Why not be supportive instead of adding to the anguish? Everyone makes mistakes, and if Krista's mom did let her daughter go, I am sure she thought it was best. I am sure it seemed like it was a good reason at that time. We can never know in advance what will happen to our loved ones. If her Mom knew what was going to happen, I am sure she would have done something differently. Even if she did do something different, we cannot know what the result would have been.
We cannot live our lives on what we think might happen. If we did that, we would never leave our house, never branch out, never try anything new.
You are correct in that we need to treasure every moment our loved ones are alive.
Under these circumstances, we do not need people reminding us of the mistakes we made. I am sure there are plenty of good memories.
If Krista was still here, I am sure she would tell you these things as well. "If Only" follows everyone around when someone passes no matter what the reason. It is totally insensitive of you to keep reminding relatives of the bad.
If the family doesn't like what is written go to another website. Don't read it. But from what I saw on the news and in the newspapers the family just can't help themselves. They are drawn to the television lights like a moth to the flame.
Yes I feel for the family but I want to be able to discuss the issues of this case freely without some family member crying "You just don't understand".
This kid is going to jail for the rest of his life. This bimbo is probably getting 20 years to life. But there are other factors that put Krista's life in danger.
A boyfriend that was screwing around with a kid that didn't know how to accept rejection. What did Thomas do to Britney? Revenge doesn't make the killing right, but Thomas needs to accpet his part of the responsibilty.
A mother who turns her back on a girl and says she can live without her, forcing her to move in with her boyfriend and his father. Yes I am sure she is filled with regret, but it is a factor that contributed to her murder.
Thomas's father. Couldn't he see the evil in these two people? Did he know what was going on in his own house? He was there to take care of this young girl. He reported the threats after the fact. Why didn't he do something before it was to late?
The families of Britney and Dustin. Couldn't they see where these two were headed. Anyone that looked at their My Space pages knew there was something wrong.
And again, anyone that saw their My Space profiles. Come on that was some sick shit. These two, Thomas and many of their shared friends have fasinations with death and murder. What the hell is up with that?
Yes she is your sister or your friend, but here in this forum we have every right to discuss her. We have every right to talk about this crime. I want to make sure that folks don't forget about all of the people that contributed to this horrible tragity.
Step back.
A kid I know just called me, got bitten by a dog who jumped its fence. She didn't know what to do, didn't want to be dramatic. Kids have very little sense of how to act. Adults too. Safer not to act. Think of all the people who come forward when a parent kills a child to say they saw indicators of violence. And think of the rampage killers, the people who weren't surprised.
Part of it has to do with our idea of freedom and rights. These two killers were entitled to put almost anything they chose on their web pages. We defend that freedom. What we need is a social mechanism that is not necessarily legal and punishment oriented. If we turn in a parent for bruises on their child, we might be responsible for an innocent person going to jail and losing his or her child. And those rampage killers, who would we speak to about our fears about their obsession with weapons and killing?
How and to whom do we report the red flag behavior of an innocent teen? The way our system is now, we have to wait till people commit a crime till we can deal with them.
I am a part of that redneck ass family as you say.... you don't know what our family has been through and you can't claim to call MY family that when you don't know anyone. If you would like to say that about my family, at least get to know us and know that everyone has struggles, if you are so perfect, why have you not been translated to heaven to live with GOD?
somebody falsifying my name in here. i didnt give a fuck about none of those sad ass people and i support statchatory rape. but if this fake simon shit keep up there gonna be another MUR-DERA massacre. so whoever the fuck you are keep my name out your "home-row" or I'm gonna kill your family
-SIME
FdotSnitches
i had to call in sick to baltimore air coil today cause i heard somebody trying to use my name to talk about squares who are no longer with us
-SIME
-SIME
-Rose M.S.
I'm sorry for everyone that is going through this horrible loss. I think that you are so right about the boy that murdered Krista. The girl involved is obviously very unstable and vengeful to have even thought of doing such a thing to another person. She used that boy to do her dirty work knowing that he had probably never had a girl pay him any attention before. That doesn't excuse him though. How someone could commit such a horrible crime is beyond me...and then take pictures to prove that it was done.
I know what it is to lose a loved one to murder and so I can place myself in the shoes of Krista's family and also your sister. My youngest daughter was murdered and it is a nightmare that I wouldn't ever wish on anyone. It is something that a person never gets over. A selfish act committed by another person. Don't pay any attention to what others say about Krista. Those of you who knew Krista know the person that she was. The people who didn't know her don't really matter. Barbara
http://maderaonline.com/news/news-2.html
i am shocked by what some of the people have to say about my sister on here. its as if nobody has any kind of emotion. how dare u sit there and say that thomas should go to jail. All he ever did was get together with the girl he loved. Its not up to u to say what should happen to him. what if your fiance was murdered and YOU found her in YOUR living room. and then everybody is telling u that ist ur fault????
its most likely someone who knows brittany navarra. but who cares. his opinions mean nothing.
my real name is Scott Christ
mysnake.com/high5imon
don't get it fucked up.
-Simon I dont got duck lips Johnson
-Simon -threatning people's lives- Johnson