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The kind that stuffs 13-yo boymeat in her cooch? Just a guess.
Don't know how I missed this one.
Funny, the kid's name is Fernando Rodriguez, and he wants to flee to Mexico according to the article. If only we could figure out a way for all illegal aliens to take a child rapist with them to Mexico, this country would be an awesome place to live.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071102/ap_on_re_us/teacher_student_search
What do I mean by that? I mean that the laws we now have in place regarding this sort of situation are completely incorrect and unjust. They are preserved by a combination of rampant fascist ideology, the decline of patriotic and meaningful critical discourse, an astounding ignorance regarding the true nature of the minds of children, and the subconscious fear and envy of a population severely oppressed on the federal level.
You cannot make the statement, "All romantic relationships between caring adults and children are harmful to the child even if the child is very willing," without telling a blatant lie, probably for the sake of convenience. That is because it is very possible for an adult to take all necessary precautions to prevent any harm from coming to the child involved.
I assert that CHILDREN MUST BE KEPT SAFE from adults who do not care for them and would seek to harm them, but that a consensual romance between a caring adult and a child is NOT ALWAYS HARMFUL for every single individual adult and child as the law itself currently assumes. In many cases, it is true that state intervention is the only thing that truly harms the child involved.
I assert that the only thing this woman did that was unethical was causing so much anxiety for this boy's parents and other loved ones.
This woman did break existing laws, so she should expect this fact to be addressed. However, I call on prosecutors, judges, juries, and the entire United States population to never be so cowardly as to cease contemplating the validity of existing laws through rational criticism.
Thanks for reading.
Corrected for you.
I am embarrassed and ashamed of the fact that I live near Lexington. Its unbelievable how incompetent the law enforcement is here,
Another point I’d like to bring up … Why didn’t the school administration notify the police BEFORE letting Peterson know they were on to her. Instead, the school put her on "Administrative Leave" and it took Dawson County's finest untill Monday to wake up a judge to get the necessary paperwork needed.
IMO..they should have left her in a Mexican Jail for about 6 months, because thats how long it will take Dawson County to act upon this.
That is not fair justice! And let me also add that a sexual relationship between an adult and a child is just plain wrong under any circumstances.
I can't say I agree with you, and I can't say I'm even remotely afraid of you or people like you. If you want to engage in legitimate debate with me, I would very much welcome that. Unfortunately, you don't sound like a very ethical or intelligent person, so how can I take you seriously?
Now, if you just want to physically threaten me, be prepared to back it up or shut your mouth, or my only option is to think less of you.
Although, your chance for success with either are remote.
I have asserted that it is not impossible for a caring adult and a willing child to engage in a romantic relationship with no harm resulting to the child from the relationship.
Is that the assertion with which you disagree? State your position.
I also said you were a pedophile.
I did not, however, threaten to shoot you.
And take the pro-pedophile bullshit somewhere else. If I want to be nauseated I'll drink syrup of ipecac.
Exactly! I'm glad to hear you understand this, right on.
Kmetzi says: However, I would submit that a child is not capable of understanding their emotions in adult situations. Therefore, the responsibility lies with the adult.
I agree that it is absolutely right to place the responsibility on the adult to ensure the child's well-being. As for the child being unable to understand his or her emotions in adult situations, what do you mean by that? Do you mean that the child does not have experience with those sorts of feelings, so he or she has not yet decided how to address them?
Kmetzi says: If the adult behaves innappropriately, the child is adversely affected. If the adult decides to act sexually then the child is a victim. And the child knows it!
By "inappropriately," I'm going to assume you mean in some currently-illegal manner. The assumption of the inevitability of harm to the child is the assumption in causality that I am not so certain is true. Certainly, this is the claim that has been made by the mainstream media for a long while now. The child knows that this is what is claimed by the media, but also knows that not everything people say on TV is necessarily true. Is it really true that psychological harm will inevitably come to a child who willingly engages in sexual activity with an adult who takes every precaution to ensure the well-being of the child? Please, convince me.
Yes. If this is in any way confusing to you, run, don't walk, to the nearest psychiatric hospital and seek help immediately.
All I can say is, that either didn't come out how you intended, or dear god I hope you never have a child.
To do that, I need to know something else.
Kmetzi, what is your opinion on two children close in age below the age of consent engaging in sexual activity with no adults present?
The problem comes when an adult enters the equation. It's not the same thing, and if you can't realize that, see my previous comment about seeking psychiatric help.
Also, stop trying to seek "reasonable discussions" on the issue. There is no such thing as "reasonable discussion" about child rape. Things like this are the reason the word oxymoron exists. Just putting the two terms in the same sentence made me feel dirty.
If an adult isn't emotionally mature enough to have a relationship with another adult, resorting to preying on children is not a legitimate option.
It is well-established that rape should always be illegal. Child rape is when an adult engages in unrequested or undesired sexual activity with a child against the will of the child. I agree, that should always be illegal. But to apply the term "rape" to sexual activity where both parties are willing is, quite simply, wrong-headed, even though that is exactly where the law currently stands.
In fact, that makes people equate less serious situations with more serious situations, and the victims of what is really rape are therefore taken less seriously, which is extremely terrible.
My argument is regarding cases where the child is willing or perhaps even eager to engage in the activity.
Alyric says: If an adult isn’t emotionally mature enough to have a relationship with another adult, resorting to preying on children is not a legitimate option.
For most pedosexuals, it is not about being "unable" to engage in a relationship with another adult, but actually wanting to engage in a romantic relationship with a particular child in the first place. Preying on children is never an option. But engaging in a romantic relationship with a child is not always preying. Preying implies that the perpetrator is attempting to benefit from a victim without regard to the well-being of the victim. I assert that in the cases I am talking about where the adult cares for the child and ensures no harm comes to him or her, there is no victim.
And to be honest, I was having the debate with Kmetzi... This interruption has slowed our debate down.
In other words, if you are in it to get off, you should probably stay as far away from children as possible, but the court will settle your hash for 300 feet or so.
You would probably ask why? The answer is children lack sexual development, and pedophile advances are subject to all sorts of misinterperetation from them.
You don't meet many adults who would claim they are glad they were molested as children, many consider themselves psychologically scarred for life.
It's not a sexual preference, it's a sexual dysfunction.
The media and the law, unfortunately, have twisted the term "molestation" to also include certain situations that really are not acts of molestation at all, even if they are sexual in nature.
That's the current social opinion. However, the exact same thing was said about homosexuality 50 years ago. That is why I cannot trust the social order's "word" on this issue; I must see all the evidence and make the decision for myself.
You could have shortened that up to "I am a pedophile" because that belief basically constitutes pedophilia.
You can't "care for the well-being of the child" and want to stick your dick in them. Wanting to stick your dick in a kid constitutes not caring for the kid.
So many assumptions! But anyway, isn't it amazing how millions of husbands truly do care for their wives and, as you say, "stick their dicks in them"! That really suggests your understanding of sex itself is incomplete or flawed.
Another, more to-the-point quote, which I don't remember exactly so I'll parphrase, until you have children of your own you don't comprehend the depth of their innocence, and it sickens me that there are those who would destroy that innocence for their own gratification.
Loss of innocence, that's the root of the problem, and I think the root of the disconnect you have with my side of the arguement.
That may be the most idiotic thing I've ever read.
First of all, you realize the media has a different view on that, right? There was a recent story somewhere with a 7-year-old boy and a 6-year-old girl playing some sort of sex game behind stairs in a school and they were actually contemplating punitive action.
Second of all, let me lie down what I think an adult would need to do in a sexual relationship with a child and still ethically be in the right.
---
1. Educate the child about all the risks associated with sexual activity. Then confirm that they really do understand these risks and their implications. BEFOREHAND.
2. The adult must be completely healthy, having no sexually transmittable diseases.
3. Provide medical examination results to the child and the parents of the child to show that the adult is healthy, as well as obtaining permission from the parents of the child. BEFOREHAND.
4. With all of this knowledge, be certain that the child still is interested in the activity. If not, the adult must back off immediately.
5. Use appropriate contraception techniques to prevent against unwanted pregnancy, regardless of the child's age. No chances can be taken.
6. If at any time the child changes his or her mind, cease immediately.
7. Any action must be completely innocent in nature. There can be absolutely no sadism allowed in this picture.
8. The adult must be receptive to the child's mood, well-being, attitude, comprehension, and so on, every single step of the way.
---
Explain to me precisely why you are certain that every child would inevitably be harmed if a loving adult went through all of these steps to ensure the well-being of the child in a sexual relationship.
I am NOT in any way promoting the breaking of the law. Laws must be obeyed when they are in effect and I understand that. What I was trying to do here was encourage a debate to make sure people understand the issues without blindly following whatever the TV says.
However, this site seemed to have technical difficulties after that. Kind of weird.
So for the record, this was just a speculative debate that I was attempting to use to make people more politically intelligent. Sorry if anyone misunderstood.
And kenny, you probably peddle kiddie porn too. Because by your twisted reasoning, if its okay to have kids consent to sex with adults, its okay for kids to consent to sex with adults on camera too.
I would not have suggested a road trip to Mexico though. Canada is a much nicer country, and I would have preferred to go on the lam there instead.
1. society HATES it, then...
2. IGNORES it, then...
3. TOLERATES it, then...
4. ACCEPTS it, then, WAKES UP and...
5. FIGHTS it
You ought to go study these patterns in history, what is NOT right is NOT right. Whether one believes in a religion or not, the feeling is the same throughout all of society.
So while 'you' got society somewhat manipulated, look forward to step 5- a solid FIGHT (and please, not the physical type, why is everyone soooo tough on the net- when they know we are just all behind computers?? Why even go there?)
Look Kenny, get yourself checked out, get professional help and most of all repent. Its impossible that you (like the rest of society who are all imperfect for various reasons, incl myself) wont be held accountable by that great Architect who created us. One could quote from Buddha, Muhammed, Krishnamurti- they all say the same things, but none so eloquently and as serious as the Saviour Himself (paraphrased of course)- '...it is better that a man hang a stone around his neck and drown himself, than touch even one hair on the head of a child'. We will be judged Kenneth- we are here for a reason to prove ourselves in a very short period of time, so we can enjoy eternity if we resist all the temptations and corruptions that make us humans. You think we just are the be all and end all of this universe with zillions of planets and stars spread zillions of earth miles apart (4.2 billion accessible to even the naked human eye? Think outside the square chap, coz this is a short testing ground.
Stop taking advantage of your experience to snare children, just because an adult woman/man can see right through your pedophiliac heart, -right now, you are a dangerous and filthy pig. Adios.
If you had a point, you would have crystalized it by now. You are a jerkoff troll and a pedophile that is spreading your filthy beliefs.
I don't miss much, Douchy.
I mean it was her only chance. Be the Baby Gurl of the Mexican boy that I don't think have a finger of naive. Like many teens in south America and mexico.
I don't see this Mexican ALPHA KID being victim still if you people get ALL THE FACTS.
He's a KID...hell, he's not even a young adult.
Xan, you are a disgusting human being and a liar. You lied when you said "I have traveled to Malaysia, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Japan, Qatar, Dubai, The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, and the Ukraine and they would ONLY consider this a crime on the basis that a tutor is only supposed to teach."
In Malaysia the age of consent is 16.
In Indonesia, its 19 for males and 16 for females.
In the Phillipines, any sexual contact under the age of 18 is illegal, and the same goes for Japan and Thailand.
Before you come onto a message board and begin to lie, you should consider the fact that people are not stupid and remember that Google exists. dick.
I'd say that you have to consider all things in a case-by-case basis, but shouldn't we tread lightly in the gray area? It seems certain that pedophiles lack the confidence to maintain a relationship (whether due to interest or ability) with a similarly-aged partner. Otherwise, why not just sleep with adults for caution's sake?
Oh, and as for the talk about other countries, I can only speak for the ones mentioned that I've been to, Japan and Thailand, but while those places have ages of consent akin to the ones in the US, the attitudes in those countries are very, very different, and ultimately that is what determines the behavior of a populace and even the enforcement of its laws.
Stop trying establish clarity in an already clear situation. The teacher a flocking pedophile. And by the way, it's clear to us here you had a few ribs taken out so you can blow yourself. But like both of your daddies said, don't smack while you chew and burping when you're finished does not always mean you're full.
Kenny it is harmful because a child's brain is still developing even into their 20's and their thoughts, beliefs and sense of right and wrong is developing and solidifying at that time. Their neurological development and personality is all over the place wildly at the ages you suggest, this affects judgement and perception, what may seem not harmful to them now, or to you now, may later have a negative outcome.
Is is better to take a risk like that with someone's development, or is it better to not take that risk ? The decision to affect that child by sexual contact at a young age is selfish, and while the child may not grow up feeling scarred, it will most certainly affect their future development and perceptions in unknown ways. To take a risk like that is again selfish, psychologically unstable and morally wrong. THAT is why Kenny; and just to inject an opinion, it is pathetic when a man or a woman cannot find someone their own age, how much of an inept loser does one have to be to go out with a kid, it's like the 40 year old screwing the 18 year old. It is pathetic because most 18-21 year olds are stupid and exercise poor judgement, and the 40 year old is too much of a socially malformed, inept loser to convince someone his age to date him, they are smart enough to see this so they reject him, or her, for a reason !
Why is it "harmful", when it is not the same as actually causing physical harm or overt obvious psycological damage. Just my assumtion at this of course.
Sex in and of itself between consenting people is not harmful morally or psychologically, it is because the person is unformed and may later suffer and or suffer latent damage that is not apparent to them or the concerned adult that it is harmful and wrong.
Just like drinking and driving, it may not be harmful per se if no one is hurt, but it is wrong because you are taking an unreasonable risk with everyone else's safety not just your own. It is wrong in all cases whether or not anyone is hurt, because you take the risk knowing that it is more than a little likely that something could happen. same with sex with a kid.
because my parents were so concern about us being in public schools with MALE teachers...
so bassicaly... even when i hated to be in that school... it didnt actually make any sense! cuz WOMEN can also be Pedophiles (actually the principal of my school was charge for minors abused... and he is a priest!) and that's what i always tried to explain to my parents! i think relationships between adults and childs are good... that's why social programs like " become a big brother" exists! but when you want to get dirty with a kid... that is just lack of confidence and possible brain damage... i mean... adults destroy thousands of kids' lives with these pratices. and sexual relationships with kids no matter the color of the skin...should be punish with more than 40 years and some other physical punishments... im sorry if i hurt somebody's feelings but that's just my opinion! i dont like pedophiles!!! is one of the most disgusting and sad things in this world! to bad it was a mexican kid, cuz this case is gonna be over in no-time and people would forget about quite soon!
my only advice... DONT TRUST ANYBODY!
Having said that, I offer the following for digestion:
In many countries around the world, as has already been stated many times by several people, "children" engage in sexual activity and even give birth at very young ages. Many times, these children do so as part of a marriage. My 8th grade Spanish teacher was married to a much older man when she was 16, an age I still defrinately consider a child. At that age, parental consent is required to marry where I'm from. However, they arre still married now, some 20 years later. Is that wrong?
Mary, the mother of Christ, was betrothed to marry Joseph at a very young age (most scholars agree on or around 16 years old). I will not make this an arguement about faith or Christianity; I've already stated my beliefs. Suffice it to say that if she had not given birth to Christ as a virgin, she would have begun having sex and producing children as young as 16 years old after having been married. Is that wrong?
Granted in both of these cases, the child is older than 13; however, the point still exists. Sexual activity occured between a 16 year old woman and a much older man. I believe there is nothing wrong with either situation, given that there was parental consent in both situations, and was within the confines of marriage.
Biologically, as humans, we are able to have sex and reproduce as soon as puberty, which in some cases can be as early as nine years old! I in no way advocate sex that early, but biologically speaking, we can.
I offer this as a counter-point to what I just stated: in those societies where children do get married or enter into life-long relationships, it should be noted that they are required to mature mentally faster than American children. Rights of passage still exist that determine when a boy becomes a man, etc. Some of these rights happen as early as 13 years old. In America, indeed in most modern civilizations, we no longer have rights of passage, which leaves our young men and women, who are biologically wired to begin producing children at young ages, wondering what is right. Are the morals and ethics of this society right? Or, are the biological triggers within them guiding them correctly?
I believe that meaningful sex can occur between a child as young as those mentioned and an adult and can be spiritually, mentally, and emotionally beneficial within the confines of marriage, and indeed, happens every day on this earth.
Do not misinterpret what I've said. Remember that these are within the confines of marriage, and in America, to be married at an age less than 18 requires parental consent.
My views are automatically therefore set against what happened in this case, as no one initially knew of the relationship between the child and teacher; they tried to keep it a secret, and obviously, were not married.
I submit this entry for intellectual discussion and, if desired, a faith-based approach to this debate. Remember, however, to keep an objective tone, for when you lash out at people and deliver emotions into an arguement, you discredit yourself and your arguement.
There are some pieces missing here, much of it biological and developmental. We're also neglecting the psychological impact of a power imbalance, and imbalance that clearly exists between adults and kids. Between kids being on a much lower rung developmentally and perceiving themselves as in the power and protection of adult, kids cannot be on equal footing with an adult.
That stuff is pretty straightforward. Pedophiles usually believe they'll be the exception to those rules. The most complicated justifications come from the incomplete idea that children are sensual and sexual beings. But being sexual as a child is far from the same thing as being sexual as an adult. Safe, appropriate, developmentally healthy sexual explorations are almost always solitary for a child. Even too much sexuality with another child at a similar stage is a sign of unhealthy exposure of some sort.
It can be confusing for pedophiles because children can be so sensual, trusting, and expressive. Kids love contact and affection. And the majority of pedophiles do not coerce children into encounters. They rely on the child's affection for them and the child's innocence about sexual matters. What pedophiles need to know is that sexual contact with adults always damages a child. Children always say it does at the time and once they're grown. Though it's very complicated, it's essentially because sexual contact does not fit into a child's developmental stage and feels wrong to have a protector initiate something wrong. The child then begins to make other connections about adults, their safety, being taken advatage of, what it says about them that they were used.
In kids words, affection within the proper bounds of relationship feels good. Contact, even simple affection, outside of boundaries, feels icky and scary and like they are bad people. Often kids enter into sexual contact trusting the guidance of an adult because they care for the person, want to please, and just don't know any better. They usually end up paying for not knowing any better with how they feel about themselves for the rest of their lives.
It's not a cultural value kids have picked up and internalized. I counseled an 85 year old women who was a kid when molestation "did not exist." She permitted a family friend she initially cared for to touch her several times. No one but her molester ever knew. She spent her entire life feeling dirty, befouled, less.
Children's complicated little minds are vulnerable in their constant state of change. When we love them, we protect their childhoods.
The boy is an illegal alien and will not be allowed to enter the US!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307941,00.html
I will tell you something about myself. When I was young, someone in my family (by marriage) would expose himself to me. He never put his hands on me. This was a person I respected, trusted, and loved. I was sickened by it. I was frightened by it. It still haunts me to this day. When I was 9 and he first came into the picture, he would chase me around the house and try to kiss me. I HATED it, but everyone thought it was cute and funny. Who could know he was a creep? You just didn't hear about things like this back in 1976! Then it went to the cut off shorts and no underwear and he'd sit on the floor with his legs all splayed out in front of my sister and myself so that some of his "parts" came out of a leg hole. I would stay at their house on the weekend and when I'd be laying on the couch, watching tv until I was ready to go to sleep, his wife would go to bed and he'd take a shower. He'd come into the room I was in with a towel wrapped around him and would make the towel "slip" and do the "oops", like it was an accident, and he'd be standing there with an erection! I had never even SEEN a penis at that point in my life, so I didn't know that they weren't always like that. After a while though, I figured out that it wasn't just an accident. I'd still stay there because his wife loved me and we were very close, but at night, when I heard the water turn off in the bathroom, I'd turn the tv off and roll over and pretend to be asleep. I knew nothing of sex at that point in my life, but I KNEW that what he was doing was WRONG and it made me feel dirty and ashamed. I feel very fortunate that he never put his hands on me.
So now you have it first hand how it feels to be a child and to have an adult approach you in a sexual manner. Even if you know and love and trust the person, something inside you KNOWS that when they do something like that to you, it's not right! We are STILL taught that it is BEST to not engage in sex or have children outside the confines of marriage. That's what I was taught, anyway, and that's what I believe. I don't even think it's okay for two consenting 14 year olds to have sex. It's probably less emotionally damaging to them, since they're both kids...remember when you were 14? I don't know about any of you, but when *I* was 14, I was invincible! I had all the answers and no one could tell me any different! That is why adults have to PROTECT children from this and educate them inside their homes about this.
I feel like I'm not getting my point across and starting to get too emotional and I don't want to make any more "bullet in the face" references, so I'll stop here regarding that matter.
As for the FBI, they monitor stuff like this all the time. All anyone would have to do is contact the people who work with Dateline NBC To Catch A Predator and direct them to this thread and if they found it as disturbing as most of us seem to, they'd be all over Kenny like white on rice. He was foolish to say the things that he was thinking on a public forum. He may have been trying to be funny, or to spark debate, but it felt to me like he is very passionate about what he said and that he DOES feel that it's okay. Even if he retracted his statements, would you believe it? He's possibly set himself up for a world of hurt. Yes, we're free to state our opinions in this country, but when those opinions are so heinous and so far from what the laws permit and so far from what society finds normal, people start looking into you. If they didn't, it would be irresponsible. That is part of the job of law enforcement. Protecting citizens from coming to harm. Be careful, Kenny...you never know when Dateline could come to your town!
I think I called that in my first post, didn't I? And then Paul wanted to be a little bitch and challenge me that a spanish last name didn't make someone an "illegal citizen."
Suck it Paul. And there are no such things as "illegal citizens." There are citizens (you have to earn citizenship), and there are illegal aliens.
Hey, if every kid-touching teacher could deport one dumbass illegal alien, this country would be a much better place.
When discussions turn to morals, they become about points of view and opinions. When we're arguing societal ills, it's important to realize that we have factual information at our disposal and not just our moral outrage. Maybe at a time when all anti-pedophila messages were generated in popular morality, it was possible for pedophiles to propose that we all examine our beliefs. But now, we're beyond mere beliefs. After decades of inquiry, we know pedophilia harms children. The argument necessarily becomes whether or not we have a right to harm children.
So Lou, in a way I was defending Kenny's right to ask. Pedophiles, especially with support they receive in online communities, operate under a dangerous set of justifications based in misapplied half-truths. (Ex: Kids are sexual. Kids are curious. Kids are resilient. Molesters force kids against their will therefore no force means no molestation.)
What are we going to do about this apparent increase in pedophilia? For the pedophiles who are rapists, self-indulging violators, we can only increase our policing efforts. But what do we do when people like Kenny, operating under misguided beliefs, tell us they truly think it's ok and even loving to interact sexually with children? Well, Kenny had access to Lou's story about her loving uncle engaging in non-physical sexual acts and hurting her deeply, lastingly. Maybe Kenny has not offended against a child. Maybe he will go to a counselor, get the help he needs to prevent hurting anyone. Finding a child molester after they have offended is too late. Find a young person confusingly attracted to children and instead of allowing him or her to be informed only by the justifications of other pedophiles, let that person know the pain and damage they could cause. Challenge him or her to act on the love they say they feel.
It's easy to say "kill them," but clearly that's not going to happen. So what are we going to do? It might not be as satisfying, but we need to stop combating pedophile justifications with pure moral outrage and let them ask "what's wrong with sex with a child?" If they don't know innately from their experiences in childhood and with children, then they need our input. What's more, we and our chldren need at least that minimal access to them. Lou did more good than any of us. I'm glad Kenny asked and wasn't entirely pushed out. I hope other pedophiles read Lou's story.
Rott in hell you peice of human shyt!
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/boy-stranded-after-teacher-is-arrested/20071101175909990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
The way I feel about pedophilia is this...NAMBLA, particularly. These men want to be with young boys. Young boys who are innocent and inexperienced. They want to teach them and "love" them. They aren't in it for a long lasting relationship though. I've never heard of a child being in a relationship with a grown man that lasted beyond the boy getting "too old" for the man's tastes. Many times, these boys who were abused are then used to recruit NEW boys. Then they are left broken and confused, and some of them go on to become abusers themselves. Because some person with a twisted mind is the one who is introducing them to sex and telling them they love them and that they care for them. When they get too old, they're left out in the cold, feeling ashamed and alone with no one to turn to because they "consented". THAT is why we have laws for statutory rape. That is why it is wrong. Remember your first broken heart? I remember mine. Imagine having it broken by a grown man who supposedly LOVES you, but the reason they don't love you anymore is because you're not physically appealing to them anymore? A pedophile doesn't have the intention of growing old and making a life with these children they profess to love. They just get left out in the rain, like a broken toy, and the man moves on to destroy a new child.
Could you imagine being the parent of a child who's adult "lover" came to the door to ask permission to be with your kid? BANG ZOOM!!! Seriously...Kenny, if you can find a parent on the planet who would allow that, more power to ya!
"Now, I don’t THINK Ms. Peterson knew the kid was an illegal and trying to be a vigilante."
I think she knew. Of course she didn't do it as a vigilante; she was too stupid to have a better plan than to run to Mexico. But she knew he was illegal. It had to have come up in a conversation some time or another.
And, Dan, I think yours is one of the most mature viewpoints I've seen on here, but I am not sure why everyone is so quick to accuse me of being one way or another just because I demand answers and intelligent rational thought from our population.
Finally, a point that one of the previous posters made was basically this: "We don't know that children aren't always hurt by these things, so we must assume that they are, for their safety, until we find some damned good evidence to show otherwise." I absolutely agree with that viewpoint. In fact, I think the same mindset can be applied to the question of the morality of abortion. We don't know whether it is right or wrong, and there are some very legitimate reasons to suppose that it could be wrong, so why risk it?
Kenny- "far as I am concerned, more knowledge from experience can only mean that we will be more likely to discover what is actually true."
From experience? So what, your suggestion is that we concede to allowing all children to be sexually abused in order to see if it really hurts every single one of them? Are you nuts, or just to full of yourself that you actually think that this is the best method possible??
I really was going to bite my tongue on this one, really I was. But... you're asinine theories are just to off base to be swiped under the rug.
Pedophiles are not into the loving relationships that they pretend to be. Their preference for children comes ONLY because they have a sexual desire for them, not because they have actual "love". And when the child grows out of their AoA, they will move onto their next victim, that right there is a pretty good sign that it's lust and not love.
Putting any child at risk of being manipulated and exploited by some sick lil pedofreak just so you can stand back and gain "more knowledge from experience" is senseless. Sort of like if I was to say that I didn't think everyone stoned to death felt the process was completely painful, so we should get more experience in the area by stoning a few idiots before deciding the moral objections we might have to it.
No, that was not my suggestion at all. I was reiterating the need to listen to people like Lou who have stories to share about this issue.
Quit putting words in my mouth.
With a face like hers, no wonder why she is banging 13 year olds. DAWG FACE!
Devin
But even then he won't be able to testify in court, even if he wanted to.
It takes less than 10 seconds to do a search on Google to find what the effects of sexual abuse are on children. If you were really interested in learning about the topic- any half hearted research paper would have given you that. Hearing the pain straight from a victim isn't needed for those that have any sort of common sense.
But you've lacked the ability to show any common sense, starting with your first assertions, through your guidelines for 'child/adult' relationships all the way to your latest comment.
You "demand answers and intelligent rational thought", when you yourself have shown none. And only when provoked with the true to life story of a surviver do you back track in an attempt to sound less morally challenged than you really are.
The only thing you have even started to properly reiterate is the mating call defense of pedophiles who click around the internet declaring how it's so wrong for everyone to assume that sexual exploitation hurts, and how we should all see it as nothing else normal than homosexuality, or heterosexuality.
One 10 year old girl talked to a man on the street about how short shorts should be. She smiled, laughed, talked about her shorts and generally enjoyed the attention. The man eventually exposed himself to her. She fled. At home, overwhelmed with guilt by feelings of having invited the attention, she cried hidden in the attic, wetting her pants rather than go downstairs and face her family.
A gifted 14 year old boy enjoyed the attentions of his sister's 17 year old boyfriend. The 14 year old, fatherless, admired the older boy in a way that bordered on hero-worship. The older boy "groomed" the younger boy, meaning he gradually got him accustomed to greater and greater uncomfortably invasive behavior, such as slipping into the boys bed to talk late at night and masturbating in front of the younger boy. Eventually, the 17 year old boy penetrated the 14 year old boy, which he permitted silently. Three years later, when the 14 year old was 17 himself, he confessed this event in tears to his girlfriend as an explanation of why he was unable to use the shower but could only wash in the sink. I twice brought this boy to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital for his suicidal intentions. In self-loathing, he cut himself so deeply with the many blades he purchased for the task that the function of his left hand is impaired.
A physically healthy 19 year old boy with erectile dysfunction attributes his inability to trust women to "consensual" first intercourse when he was 13 with a 21 year old woman.
In my experience, adolescents (which ends in early 20s) who "consent" to sexual acts they feel pressured or confused about how to handle suffer far greater repurcussions than those forcibly violated. Someone forcibly violated can come to terms with the idea that there are bad people in the world. Young people who do anything less than fight back screaming fear they are the bad people, the degraded, used, usable. This damage manifests itself in several ways so consistently (such as self-abuse, eating disorders, sexual dysfunction...) that I cannot recall ever encountering an exception.
Pedophiles, in order of severity:
Kenny Chris Charlie
There you go.
Cause I wasn’t kidding about that bullet! I’d go to prison for torture and murder if some man or woman did what this woman did to MY child. The only thing I’d be sorry for would be that I couldn’t bring the bastard back to life and do it again!!!
Lou you are nothing more than a liar, a hypocrite and a show-off. Female teachers have been getting away with exactly this crime for decades and what have you done? Nothing. You're just gonna sit at home waiting for someone to do it to your child and then go torture that person. Other people's kids have it done to them every day but that isn't enough to stir you into action. It has to be your kid. So let's recap Lou's attitude towards child rape: He doesn't like it ands reserves the right to make dire threats but if it happens to someone else's child he will do nothing; if it's his child he will torture you and then kill you.
This country was MADE out of immigrants. The only REAL Americans are the indians whom we decimated to take their land. Then we brough slaves, against their will. Decades ago, we began using asians for railroad construction, and then mexicans to work the lands. And now we despice them.
I don't really care what the heritage of each one of you is. I don't care if you're white, black, or blue or purple. The moment I start disrespecting a person for his/her origin, or the color of the skin, I'm going back 100 years at least in social development. I know most Americans have "issues" against illegal immigrants. Next time you go to the grocery store, make sure you wash all tomatoes very well, they were hand-picked by those illegal immigrants most likely. And when we have kicked them all out, and you have to pay $14.95 for a tomatoe, remember that the $4.95/hr worker is gone south of Tijuana, and the $14.95 goes to finance is the minimum pay a "citizen" would accept to get his/her hands dirty. If we're one thing, is ungrateful. We've allowed the media to play with our emotions, and use the 9/11 issue to blast illegal immigrants who (by the way) come to this country looking for the american dream, as most of us do. The truth about 9/11 is that ALL TERRORISTS were not illegally in the U.S. They had visas. So what's the fuzz with illegal immigrants? Oh yes, let's not give them driver licenses, so they all will [still] drive uninsured, and so we DO NOT KNOW who's here and who is not. I wonder who the hell is drafting all these hate policies. Because that's the truth, it seems to be a hate-based system. Anyway, if things keep on going this way, we're doing them a favor to send them home because we'll end up killing each other out of hate and inconformity.
Now, what really, truly bothers me is when someone makes a distinction between a child, and an "illegal immigrant child". For those that do that, I place you at the same level as a child molester. The molester privates them from their innocense, but those who make that distinction private them from their humanity.
I'm sick and tired of people blasting on the "illegal immigrants" community. Did you know that etnic discrimination doesn't put you too far from nazi ideologies? I can taste bitternes when they refer to illegal immigrants as if they were less human. So is it less of a crime to molest an illegal immigrant child?
Some food for thought here... women who are illegal aliens but are victims of domestic violence, can stay in the country. Shouldn't it be the same with underage illegal aliens victims of sexual abuse as this mexican kid?
How do you get "ethnic discrimination" from "illegal immigrants"?
As a matter of fact, one could easily accuse you of something similar for using such a small minority (illegal immigrants) to represent an entire ethnic group.
It's not the ethnicity that's the problem. It's immigrating to the country illegally, taking jobs away from American citizens - and then not paying taxes - and numerous other issues.
If you want to immigrate to America, great. I don't care if you're Mexican, African, Indonesian, Brazilian, or Martian. Just do it the right way.
It's not really that complicated.
From my incomplete knowledge in this area, I understand young children might play at the edges of these activities, but they pretty quickly shut themselves down. I don't think many parents have to say "stop letting the dog lick your genitals." Kids seem to know how such an activity would be viewed without ever having to be told. You look at a naked sibling out of curiosity, you get a little gross out if your mind wanders too far. Same for looking at children sexually.
Babies will play with poop is they have access to it. Usually parents stop them from getting near it during a diaper change by saying "dirty" or such. Once a baby or small child has touched poop, a healthy child will not want to touch it again because of the smell and difficulty in removing it from their hands.
I guess feces got on my impromptu list because it has become (or become recognized as) a sexual act to some.
Of course, people get a charge breaking through an aversion (whether wired or taught) Breaking aversion can be exciting. But breaking through aversion is bad for the person choosing to do it, depending on the aversion. (Ex: breaking through danger aversion=hang gliding. Breaking through bestiality aversion=feeling gross) They must desensitize, bury empathy, and bolster themselves in justifications in order to function with even a distorted sense of self.
Except there's these pesky things called laws.
Do they teach kids anything these days?
I am pretty sure she was expressing her opinion on the way the laws should be changed, while fully realizing that people who break the laws in effect should be punished. I guess we have to spell everything out for you.
Moreover, shame on you for downplaying and dismissing a child's heartfelt opinion by simply implying she is ignorant. You are certainly scummier than this Peterson woman.
In fact, Ana appears to be a perfect example of a product of our modern education system. Note the lack of spelling, punctuation, grammar and the horrible, illegible abbreviations. Add to that her lack of ability to tell right from wrong and presto! Instant future Democrat voter.
I know she was in court today, but I think it was just a judge making sure she knows her rights and understands the charges against her. I haven't heard anything more.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,308139,00.html
If you love someone, does that mean you have to have sex with them? I can think of lots of people we love and don't have sex with. Adults look out for kids, do what's best for them. Teachers especially because they learn all about that it college and promise to take care of kids. A teacher who is thinking about what's best for a young boy doesn't think of him a someone to date. A teacher who thinks of a young boy as someone to date is taking advantage of his youth and inexperience, thinking only of herself. This will hurt Fernado's life. To do this to him, abduct him, even subject him to this unhappy disruption in his life, was very selfish and thoughtless of her. If she really loved him, she would have kept any inappropriate feelings to herself and never acted on it. She would have encouraged him to work hard, learn, have fun, make good decisions and take care of himself when he started dating children his age.
i agree with you all the way and if he hit on her first she should of told him it was very wrong and so forth i dont understand why they left town to ru yes knowing they was gonna get caught what did they want 1 more last week together and she left her daughter behind whos only 5 years younger than him i really dunno what was going through her mind on ohter websites they was saying its been going on for over a year he was12 wow and her friends and family knew about it and said it was wrong and she came back with she was doing nothing wrong and his family knew to and was tryin to end it why the charges now then if it was okay then and nobody went to the police then im just really lost here
Most of all though she has a WONDERFUL little girl. This little girl could access all of these things you “Adults” have to say. As if trying to deal with all that is happening to her isn’t enough do you really think that she needs to hear the immature awful things that some of you have to say!
I guess that little girl's Mommy should have considered what people would write and say about her whorish, child-raping behavior then, huh? And Google will never forget. For as long as the webservers host this content, anyone googling the name of Kelsey Peterson will know what she did, and what she lost because of her actions.
And hopefully this little girl's new permanent guardians will do a better job raising her than her mother did. And that may include monitoring her online activities.
Though certainly not in the terms we use here, the daughter needs to know that so many people think what her mother did was absolutely horrible and not easily forgiveable. Otherwise the daughter will be feeling like it was her fault she was abandoned, that she wasn't good enough in a variety of ways. She needs to know mommy behaved very badly and mommy needs to face consequences because mommy has problems.
If people truly knew it was going on, I think it's more evidence of the double standard we have when boys are abused rather than girls. Boys have it rough in this country. They're expected to man up years before they're ready. Can't we let boys have a childhood to learn what it means to be a man?
I included stories of boys hurt by the sex many condone as consentual. I can also tell you stories of young men who regretted having sex at 14 with a 14 year old, or many young men who say they were not ready for the sex they had at 17 or 18.
We don't give boys any tools or guidance. We promote their youth as driven solely by sexual appetite, as though as soon as they can get it up, they should be sticking in somebody. Boys will be boys. Then those boys become young men and reap their reward: mens' reputation as uncaring, insensitive, sex-driven dogs unable to cultivate relationships.
Boys and girls get very strong sexual feelings in adolescence, but they get different messages about what to do with those feelings. They're both judged on how they act on their impulses.
Boys need some help in this society. They need some room to grow, mature, become admirable men. A sexual relationship at 13 didn't make Fernando a man sooner. It stole his childhood and made becoming a happy, healthy, admirable man even more of a challenge for him.
People who are trained to work with kids know the signs of abuse. Sometimes a hypersexual young boy is one with emotional problems who acts out to get attention. Or often a hypersexual child learned that sexuality pleases adults when he or she was sexually abused. So suggesting this boy might have hit on the teacher tells us that she might have taken advantage of even greater vulnerability, that she saw he was a weak one easily culled from the herd. It's bad enough to think she groomed a middle school child. But if she groomed a boy acting out sexually, it doesn't defend her, it speaks even worse for her because she preyed on a child's emotional hurts.
It's not safe to draw conclusions simply from behavior, but teachers know that if a student establishes a pattern of flirting or flirts aggressivey even a few times, that child needs to be refered to counseling. It's completely healthy and natural to have all sorts of sexual fantasies about teachers at that age. To act on those fantasies is a sign something is wrong.
I am desperately curious about this phenomenon of turning a blind eye to child abuse. Is it that the horror is too great to face? We don't want to believe it's true? We don't want to believe t of the abuser? Maybe this woman was so respected that people didn't want to believe she was capable of predatory behavior?
A boy who's been in trouble with the law by 12 is definitely a weak one in the herd. Happy, healthy, safe, supported kids don't often act out like that. Pedophiles hunt with this knowledge.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_re_us/teacher_student_search
As a "victim" (though I don't like to think of myself that way - it's just something you have to try to deal with and work through) of sexual abuse when I was younger, I can guarantee you that the harm is as real and significant to the young male as to the young female victim.
People shouldn't look on Nebraska with disgust. Just one county. Dawson County dropped the ball.
Arod,
The only culture that has thrived in Lexington is a culture of illegal aliens. The whole town nearly shut down during the last immigration protest when all illegals walked off their job, and living there, YOU KNOW IT!
First off - everybody from Nebraska is NOT white trash!! There are a lot of decent people here living their lives, raising their kids, and going to work everyday to make a decent life for their families. I went to school with Kelsey and she would've been one of the last people anyone would've thought to engage in this behavior. Does that mean I liked her - no. Does it mean that I condone what she did - no. But the fact remains that it wasn't because she is from NE. It's because she is a seriously disturbed individual. They were both at fault, and it wasn't just the dawson county police. She was warned by other staff members as well as family members that trouble would result. She chose not to listen and the police were not informed until her administrative leave, right before they disappeared. I think if anyone wants to debate this, they should have their facts straight - and I don't care who pushes, it is never right to have sex with a child. At sixteen, you are old enough to make an informed and consensual decision on wether or not to have sex. What the age of that person is, is a personal choice according to law. However, I don't agree with it. If you can't vote until you are 18, can't rent your own place until you are 19 and can't drink until you are 21, I don't think anyone over 21 should be able to have sex with anyone under 21. Once you pass 21 - you can have sex with someone however much older than you that you want. Until then I think you need to stay within your age and maturity group. Kelsey was not the only one at fault - this 'little boy' was just as much to blame. He knew exactly what he was doing - he was not forced to go away with her - this is not the first time he has run away.
And for Dave - the town did not almost shut down during the immigration protest - there were still plenty of businesses up and running and doing very well. Downtown had it kind of hard with them blocking the streets. This isn't about the illegal immigrants - it's about a trusted teacher who overstepped her bounds with a child and a child that encouraged all bad behavior and took part in it. Neither should be let off the hook. I don't care how you look at it - it's disgusting! There is no way a child of that age has the power of the magnitude of 'love' that has been described, and if Kelsey has that magnitude of love for a child, then what did her daughter, who was only five years younger, go through at her home? You can go over and over this but will never come up with a satisfactory answer for everyone. Bottom line: THEY WERE BOTH WRONG AND THEY SHOULD BOTH BE PUNISHED, AS SHOULD THE FAMILIES AND THE FACULTY WHO KNEW IT WAS GOING ON AND DID NOTHING TO STOP IT OTHER THAN WARN HER THAT SHE WOULD 'GET INTO TROUBLE.' That, I believe, should be considered aiding and abetting. Dawson County is really good at making examples out of people so others might think twice - this should be one of those cases - this whole case has come down really hard on the entire county and the past teachers reputations have been questioned because of it. We have some great teachers up here - and for the entire area of dawson county to suffer, is just plain wrong. Places don't make people bad, people make people bad. Mental issues make people bad, and if you want to go all psychologist on this, how was her childhood? You are never going to find your answers - no matter how much you ask. You can debate all you want - only her and the child will know exactly what went on.
Will they all be returned to their country?
Will they instead now get a free pass to the US and green cards all around?
Will the boy be allowed back because he has been made a victim? Will his family get to stay because well he is a kid, and will need them? Not to mention I am sure they will say they also suffered. Which in some ways is likely so.
After all as stated the State will likely need him for their case. I can not see them bringing him in and sending him back.
Is this what is meant in the one story when the family member said the FBI was handling it??
I have to be honest I am torn on the issue of allowing him back and giving them citizenship but than we know that will likely come into play.
Just going by his own actions without mixing in his being a victim it has been said he was already off on a not that great (or legal) path. So do we overlook that, and just give him his card and say welcome sorry that you become a victim to one of our own?
Mind you at the same time I do wonder where this kid will end up now after all this?? I pray that he can bounce back as many victims do, and make a real life for himself.
As far as the abuser having been sexually active early in her own teen years. I can not help, but wonder if this is not becoming a pattern these days.
. So many of these kids now days are growing up way too fast.
They live their teen years as if they are in their 20's. It seems when they hit their 20's they have a desire to return to those care free teen years to grab what they missed by rushing through them. In the process of doing that they latch on to the young people and therefore set in motion a horrible never ending cycle.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,308976,00.html
She thought about this before and stop whining. She's a PIG!
"She said to the youngster that she loved him and would always love him in her heart," said Alfredo Arenas Moreno of the Baja California state police.
Arenas said the woman admitted having a sexual relationship with the boy but felt it was unfair that she would be branded a predator and separated from her 8-year-old daughter.
"She said her life was basically over, but if she had a chance to do things differently she wouldn't," he told the AP
...
"A U.S. Embassy official in Mexico City said the boy could return to Nebraska to testify under a tourist or business visa. The boy said he would testify if asked"
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gCtOnnv40JXAiLjBYB4cW12wA5zgD8SOO4P80
These quotes really hilight just how messed up this girl is. She really thinks she's in love with him and would do it again!?!?!
I disagree with some of you, because in your “square heads” you still consider our Latin American countries less developed, it is true that we have many things to do, a long way to go, but I can tell you that we don’t accept that type of situations as “normal” things, I know there are many communities that live in poverty, and I accept it, with sadness that our kids are used for prostitution and many of our beautiful touristic places receive a lot of foreigners looking for that kind of services, but let me tell you something we are fighting against that, beside the Government actions, there are many civil associations that are taking action to promote our “Children’s Rights”. and there must be not boundaries in this battle.
With comments like that..."I wouldn't do things differently" , will this open up a defense based on diminished capacity or basically bury her. Also...one more victim. Teachers as a whole. Although, and I say this as a teacher, most people realize that this is an isolated incident, are all teachers to be talked about behind closed doors? No matter how we try, we may start a witch hunt in our own communities. Is my local grocer going to look at me and in the back of his mind wonder about me. As vigilant as we SHOULD be I hope that we don't see teachers effectiveness in the classroom diminished.
Case in point: the school waited to contact police as to the disappearance of Ms. Peterson until after they placed her on administrative leave. Valuable time was lost.
As far as the quality of education there, all I can say is for every person you can find that boasts about the schools there, I can probably find you three who have an opposing view. Used to live there. There are serious secruity issues plaguing both the Cozad and Lexington area schools.
Rick,
Unlike where my son was at, he now has teachers who want to see him succeed. They communicate with my wife and I about his progress, and we know that they we are always welcome to talk to his teachers directly at any time. This is the way it should be. As long as parents are interactive in their childrens' education, maybe that's a step closer toward keeping these things from happening in the future.
The pair, according to friends and family members, were in a relationship for about a year.
That completely disgusting. Did everyone in Lexington know about it? AND he was 12 when it started! He wasn't even a TEENAGER!!!
You hit on one of the biggest problems in our schools. You would be amazed at the percentage of parents who won't even take the time to attend parent teacher conferences. Parents need to understand that we actually spend more time with their children than they do. My view is that we are actually partners in raising these kids. When they succeed we succeed. When they fail we have to look at what we can do differently to encourage them to succeed. I have overheard parents saying that if their child had a specific teacher that their child would do better in school. To some degree this is true. Some teachers are simply collecting a paycheck. However, for those of us that believe in our kids and the endless possibilities that are in their futures we not only welcome parental involvement but know that it is absolutlely crucial to the success of their child.
Lindsey
True...those days of trust are gone. And it actually hampers our ability to teach. We have to stop and think about how all our actions will be viewed by a society that sees a pedophile in everyone. Once again, parental involvement makes the difference.
This has become an all to frequent occurance in our society these days. And I'm not just talking about teacher student relationships. What scares me the most is that we are beginning to lose that sense of shock these stories evoke.
Among all the natural resources our world has to offer, our children are the most valuble. In them, we entrust our future, our hopes, and dreams. They have accomplished what many of us only dreamed of. And now it's come down to this....
I'd like to suggest a movie that people should watch. It's called, "Children of man". Check it out...
Rick,
How well I know about parents' lack of interest in their childrens school career. My father was a teacher. He complained about it all the time.
You keep doing what you do, Rick. You might not have an impact with the parents, but I'm sure you will with the kids. They'll remember you for the rest of their lives. That's what it's all about.
I think she (Peterson) knew what she was doing. I almost lay odds she knew this family was not one that would likely go to Authorities if they found out. She may have even known their status as being not lawfully here. The boy said he could tell her anything, and that they started as "friends". She likely seen him as a perfect target.
On the topic of schools. I read this story and have to wonder is this where the school systems are headed?
http://teachersbehavingbadly.blogspot.com/2007/11/you-would-think.html
That is surely not what we want is it?
I will never teach at a school I coudn't send my own kids to.
I can't imagine a school athletic event without hugging. How is that rule helping kids understand they need to respect each other's limits? If anything it just makes grown ups look completely cracked and not worth listening to.
I know that there is always that fear, and always those around likely to take things out of context. However a hug here and there is not the problem at least not in my opinion.
They have obviously lost sight of the real issues they are facing and how to handle them when they take it this far.
I also can not help wonder where this will lead to in regards to these kids forming relationships. We seem to have our fair share already of people young and old who are walking through life "detached' from personal feelings and relationships. We have more than enough people out here unsure of just how to have a proper friendship or relationship.
Will this type of thing not lead to more of that?
Is it not better to teach them the way to healthy, and appropriate well rounded friendships relationships as well as better self images to help them from being the perfect picks for people like Peterson and the rest of these pedophiles?
The tragedy is that people would prey on our children in such a way and to such a degree that it inhibits professionals' involvement in kids' education and enrichment. Society is not wrong to stop adults from hugging kids. Sadly, we had to. Blame the predators.
Besides, people generally follow this rule most stridently with teens, and I don't believe teens need to be pressed up against a lot of relative strangers. Their sexual feelings are very confusing for them.
When we could no longer turn a bilnd eye to the predation of children, we thought we could teach the kids to turn in predators, instructing them how they can and cannot be touched, telling them what to say and who to go to. That doesn't work because predators manipulate shockingly vulnerable young minds, play on their affections, sense of self, worth, and security. Predaors aren't grabbing, they're grooming. Kids are too vulnerable and we need to protect them.
I find following physical contact rules very freeing. My behavior is unimpeachable. I'm never alone with a kid. So I can use caring words, express my enthusiasm, pride and approval very freely. Kids love that.
Education staffs know when someone stand too close, closes a door they shouldn't, is too physical, or shows misplaced interest. They knew with Kelsey. Why they didn't act is another thing. What's it called with police, the Blue Wall? Solidarity? Maybe it was villianizing the victim, that's popular. Or maybe just burying their heads in the sand, too ugly to look at. I think that's most popular.
What you're talking about with coaching, not doing it because of the tenuous situation of those who work with children, is what I hope is the far end of the pendulum swing. In general, parents feel far too entitled. They spread this to their children. I have parents with kids who have acted outrageously and instead of taking it to the kid as a serious indication of a need to change, they pursue me for perceived slights, tell me I've been unfair. It's bad for their kids ultimately.
Used to be kids and parents had to sit and take whatever some authority, like a coach, dished out. Now they can speak up. That's good, but there needs to be some balance, some perspective.
legally its sexual abuse but laws can be wrong.
One of the things that I find refreshing here is the ability of everyone to be able to express their views and have discussions about current events. I didn't know that I was a moron...but now that you've informed me that I am....it explains a lot. Thank you....been wondering for years what was wrong with me! One question...if you're so pissed about our discussions here....what the hell are you doing here. Come by just to insult people? Appreciate that....no one had pissed in my Cheerios yet today. Any time that you'd like to offer me any of your wonderful insights as to my person....please feel free. I can always use the constructive criticism.
As a society, we've got to get away from the 'icky' thing. I think it is ridculous to equate having sex with some horrible injury. Where is the harm, really, in the scenario w/ these two? To me, it seems like a couple of stupid people making bad decisions, but nothing that shouldn't be allowed in a free country (with the exception of her leaving her kid to run off).
With that said, there it, I've drawn my line in the sand at 14 years old. The kid was 13. If you want to punish her, fine. I don't think justice is going to be served by locking her up and throwing away the key, however.
I think it is sick to have sex with young children, but I also think it desireable to have sex with attractive people. This isn't a preference, it's just the way people work.
Instill your values in your child effectively (ie, be a good parent) and you will raise a child to behave in a way that you think is appropriate. This particular case, to me, is about telling people to live like we'd like them to live. Which is horse shit.
A lot of our laws are crafted around arbitrary constructs such as the age of majority or the age of consent. Those constructs vary from culture to culture, and even from state to state in our own country.
This kid is a sexually developed punk who banged his trailer trash fat chick teacher. He is not a victim of anything.
She has obviously made some poor choices, but I wouldn't label her a pedophile, predator, or child molester on the basis of this relationship alone.
Now, it looks like he can be granted a 4-year visa as a crime "victim", apply for permanent residency. His parents and siblings can now also receive temporary residency. Screw a fat chick, come to America.
And what, exactly, do you know about the emotional maturity or sexual experience of either of these two people?
I see this kid as a willing partner who saw this woman as a girlfriend. She's an idiot for getting involved with someone that young, but in THIS PARTICULAR CASE, it certainly doesn't seem like child molestation or pedophilia.
I was his age once. There were several female teachers of mine that I would have been more than happy to enter into a sexual relationship with. And I would not have seen myself as a victim, I guarantee.
Girls equate sex and love very closely. they are more easily manipulated and hurt by adults.
Boys really dont. They just want sex.
Our society is so arbitrary. It needs to look at the people involved before it makes a determination that a crime has been committed. Once someone is old enough to willingly participate in sex (as in not being physically forced to do it or otherwise intimidated or threatened), he/she's old enough to give consent. As long as there is no strange power relationship going on (i.e. if the kid is not under the direct tutelage of a teacher, for example, and there is no improper use of authority to extract sexual favors) and the two people are just enjoying being with each other, I say why does the law have to come down on the head of the older person? Before charges are filed, ask the kid whether he/she wanted to do it? If he/she says yes, and you've determined that he/she really means it, then leave 'em alone. A good psychologist can figure this one out pretty quickly.
BTW, I'm not in favor of attraction to 4 year olds or anything like that where the kid can't truly appreciate what he/she is doing sexually. But surely a 13 year old in many instances is plenty sophisticated enough to know what he or she is doing.
-openmind
I might venture a guess that if these are your values and you are enstilling them on your 12 year old, she will make you a grandfather very soon, and on multiple occasions, by several different men. Congratulations!
No one bothers to ask how this has effected the boy's relationship with his parents. I wonder why? Mike and others say that 14 is old enough for a sexual relationship. Mike, what if the 14 year old's parents forbid it? I certainly hope that you wouldn't just 'help yourself' anyway. Boys and girls, let this be a lesson to you...The government and it's laws don't always have childrens best interests at heart. Especially if they were to allow adult relationships for 14 year old kids. That's why parents have to protect their kids and enstill in them what's right and what's wrong. It's getting harder when our society has lost it's morals.
Steve,
Science can show us that the diferences between young adults and true adults is bigger than we ever really knew, but when it comes down to what's right and what's wrong, science falls short. it should come naturally that this kind of thing is wrong.
Other societies that see nothing wrong with relationships like these also have other issues like rampent teen pregnancy, STD epidemics, and other issues that are leading to social degradation. Remember when your parents said 'if your buddy was gonna jump off a cliff, would you follow him?' Same thing applies here.
Again, we're not talking 4 year olds here. Once kids reach sexual maturity they need these tools to make the right decisions -- for themselves.
I do agree that taking a kid to mexico is not cool, and is, indeed illegal, as it should be. That's where she went REALLY wrong. But had society and the law permitted their relationship in the US to continue, she wouldn't have had the need to resort to such desperate and foolish measures. Very sad case of things getting way out of hand, when they did NOT need to.
You are correct in that science will not tell you right from wrong, it should come naturally. My point goes along with what you were saying about social degradation. While you would think that it would be "natural" to think that something like this is wrong, people like Kenny or those societies where it is "normal" show that without scientific justification, people will pull the "social norm" card. Scientific evidence can strengthen an argument that lies essentially with moral point of views. When people in our society try and argue otherwise, we can point to science as a rational and logical justification against this, not just our own social belief system. An example would be abortion. Some people think it's ok, others think you are robbing a human life. But science has yet to prove you are destroying a conscience sentient being. If science were to prove otherwise, and show the fetus to be sentient and aware, I think the argument for abortion would be drastically diminished.
No, children aren't the property of the parents. But parents do have the final say in what kids do (or don't do) until they're old enough to make these decisions. Fernando wasn't old enough or mature enough to make this decision, so the teacher made it for him. She imposed HER WILL on a BOY less than half her age!
Steve,
Again, science can be a good barometer, but in the end, common sence and a good moral compass will win out. These are what enable us to extrapolate the information science provides us accurately, and wisely.
Abortion is a completely seperate issue. my short answer is that I don't believe that it's wise for our government to dictate morality in this issue. I'm against abortion myself, but I think this is something that is best contemplated on an individual basis, with all possibilities presented.
No, Children aren't the property of parents, but parents do have the final say in what their kids do (or don't do) until they're old enough to do this for themselves. Fernando wasn't old enough, or mature enough to make a desicion like this. So his former teacher made it for him. She took advantage of a boy half her age!
Steve,
I think we're agreed that science can be a good barometer, but like any piece of impartial information, results can be bastardized into something that supports the opposing view.(as it so ofter has) that's where common sence, and a good moral compass come in.
Anyway, to the poster who wagering on when I might become a grandfather.... Among the many things I try to teach my daughter is the preciousness of personal freedom. On sex, we've had the talk. There's not a manual out there for the right ways to do this stuff, but I'm doing the best I can. I feel as confident as I can in my parenting. If you are doing the same thing, you won't have to worry about your kid, either.
I think it's important for the government to butt out of the lives of its citizens as much as is both safe and practicable. And I do not buy that the people in this story have suffered any injury, except at the hands of the government. All they've done is offend some of you.
But hey, if you are the kind of person that likes to be able to tell people what to do and how to live, none of that matters, and we'll never agree.
i myself had a child when i was 19 years old but i learned from my lessons in life! i'm now 24 and put myself through college while still supporting my child! not all women who have children out of wedlock are wrong and will do this sort of thing to a 12 year old boy!! her issues stem clear back and none of will know what and how her child years were like. the only one we need to feel sorry for is for her little girl at home! b/c now she is without a mommy b/c her mommy is wrong for the things she did. she didn't ask for that! my heart goes out to this little girl!
Good luck with the Grandchildren...You'll need it!
I've suspected this myself all along, actually. And furthermore he lists his age on his myspace account as being 22.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=261644439
He's most likely stretching the truth about that of course, as many youngsters do on sites like that, but still...judging by his photo there (which seems alot more recent than the photos the press were showing of a fresh-faced innocent young boy), I very well believe he really could be older than 13.
And yes, all you doubters, I'm 99% positive that it's really his myspace. I took both the photos, the one released by AP, and the one from myspace and enlarged them in photoshop side by side. The myspace photo is mirrored backwards, but when you flip it, the boy's features match, i.e. the shaved eyebrow and the large gaudy fake diamond studs in his ears.
The whole myspace page of his is an homage to his gangster lifestyle, it seems.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding it hard to swallow that this kid is the innocent, naive child that everyone seems to want to believe that he is. More likely, Ms. Peterson was a notch on this kid's belt, and he had other males in his life telling him "way to go, stud".
Trust me on this one. Unless you've been a female living in a town full of mexicans and illegal immigrants and their "gangsta" mindset you probably won't understand, but I assure you that it's very well possible that the boy could have been the aggressor in this relationship. I've had more than my share of uncomfortable sexual advances put upon me by aggressive young hispanic males, enough to make me raise my eyebrow skeptically when people are ready to burn Peterson at the stake for "preying" upon this so-called innocent child.
Note that I am NOT trying to justify Peterson's involvement in this, especially considering that if she truly believed the boy was only 13. She's definitely got issues, if so. I'm just sayin'...I believe there could be alot of angles here that need to be examined.
Get your lighters ready, I'm climbing up on the stake so you can burn me now for my probably unpopular opinions.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10183495
"In an affidavit filed in U.S. District Court, FBI agent Jeff Becker said a Mexican birth certificate provided by the boy's parents confirmed that Fernando was born in 1994."
We will now hear from the camp of nuts that believe Fernando's parents are lying for him...
And you can suggest that I raise my daughter to be a whore, if you like. But it doesn't further your argument. And besides, your argument is irrelevant anyway, because you can't tell me that that kid is screwed up as a result of the actions of the teacher. Y'all just got your pitchforks and torches out and wanna see this woman burn. Well, I suppose you'll get to see that. But that doesn't mean it's right.
I couldn't tell if you were joking or not. I think your post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. If not, you are a stooge.
The age of consent in India is 16 years old. I love it when dopes post stuff without doing any research at all.
-Visar
And TODAY (that was over twenty years ago) kids are much wiser at an earlier age.
At the same time, adults aren't always that "smart" and can often be easily manipulated.
I think there is a difference between a child and a teen.
Just some thoughts.
Sexual mistakes are too big to permit too young. Not only pregnancy and disease, but it really messes kids' heads up badly. We don't let kids make mistakes with cars either because the repurcussions are simply too big. We let them mess up decisions about homework, sports practice, arguments with friends, how much milk to put in the macaroni and cheese.
14 and 15 is too young for sex. It's a grown up activity requiring grown up maturity. Sex has many aspects kids aren't ready to deal with maturely. Very rarely does one come across a healthy, happy, well-adjusted adult who does not regret or feel wounded by sex they had too young. It's just too much for young minds, in many ways.
Kids are often badly hurt by sex, even "consensual" sex too early. Boys too. Lots of boys. I work with two college boys who wish they hadn't rushed into sex. Another who is hooking up but wants a girlfriend. He feels very bad about himself and can't understand. I work with a boy who "consented" to sex when he was 14 with a 17 year old. He required a lot of classic "grooming" behavior from that 17 year old, which made him feel degraded. Another handsome, healthy, horny boy who had sex and 13 with a 21 year old. He is coping with profound Erectile Dysfunction now. All of these boys are dealing with some sort of sexual dysfunction not to mention other issues.
Yes, kids are horny. Being horny does not necessarily mean you have sex. Kids that age want to eat Doritos for dinner, but we don't let them. They want to stay up all night with their friends. We don't let them. We don't let them make decisons about our cars at 15 because, damn, how fucked up would that be? Are you going to give a 15 year old your car keys?!?!? How about a 16 year old? How long, how late? You gradually give them decision power. Well if you love them, you protect them from their confused impulses about sex too. In a few years, when you trust them with your car and they know all the self-protective things you can teach them about sex, keep condoms in your medicine chest and but still ask about who they're with and what their plans are. Yes, even the college kids.
I know it's uncomfortable, but we need to be the lifeguards at the edge of our kids' sexual exploration pool. We know they're erratic, crazy kids. The teens are the time for craziness. They don't know what the heck they're doing. And if you talk to a kid, I mean really talk, the difference between a 17 year old and a 15 year old is staggering.
We have the luxury of some growing sophistication now, I hope. We know better now, can do better for our kids.
Having talked to hundreds of kids, I wanted to propose an age for intercourse to my daughter, give her an idea because kids make assumptions about the age they should be having sex. My impression was that the young people I'd spoken to felt good about first sex had at 18. I told her that. Since then, people in their 20s have told me they think it should be 19 or 20. I'm shocked. The 22 year olds are saying don't have sex till you're 20. Very interesting. I don't think most people can resist past 18, but it's an interesting feeling these young people have. They're pretty disturbed by their mistakes. I think maybe kids could be happy with sexual decisons at 18 if they had some communication skills. The college-age kids are really saying that, unguided, the didn't know what was going on till recently.
Teens aren't legitimate objects of romantic interest unless you're a predator or you're a teen.
I agree that there is a huge double standard in the law concerning sexual assault cases. When we go to vote we are in essence allowing people to pass even more laws. What else are they going to do? At some point, and I think that we are far past it in my opinion, we are going to be over legislated.
Dan
What I have really enjoyed about this thread is not only the fact that everyone has me thinking of others views but also the education I get. Regarding your post Nov 20 4:32. Words I never knew. Continue the education. Thanks...R
you have very good ideas here i was 14 when i lost my virginty and i regret every moment in it i am now 24 i wish i wouldve waited til i was atleast 21 theres a song i love called sex by lyfe jennings just listen to it and its great its true once you lose it you cant get it back alot of people thinks its nothin and it is i was raped twice and it took me along time to even want it it does mess with your head when your younge he might not think so but it does but listen to the song and what does everyone think shes gonna get?? and alot of people dont think he should beable to come back or his family should go there to mexico with him i have a 4 year old daughter and id wanna be with her and id wanna hurt anyone who messed with her in that kind of way being nice about it
by Trench on November 20th, 2007
Dad of Peterson’s child gets temporary custody:
The father of Kelsey Peterson’s 8-year-old daughter has been granted temporary custody of their child more than likely because of Ms. Peterson’s country fleeing and child touching ways. His name is William Alexander Long and he resides on Texas.
“My wife and I are anxious to have my daughter come live with us,” Long wrote in the affidavit. “We are both gainfully employed and capable of providing for my daughter’s needs.”
In the affidavit, Long said the girl spent the Labor Day weekend with him and his wife. After the child’s return to Nebraska, he began having trouble reaching her on the telephone, he said. Peterson told him that the girl was not home and that she would have the girl call him later.
“It has now become clear that Kelsey was doing this to keep from me that (my daughter) had begun living in Gothenburg with her maternal grandparents and was now even attending school there,” the affidavit says.
Long said he learned that Peterson had been having a relationship with a minor and former student. “As this relationship came to light, she apparently had (my daughter) staying with her maternal grandparents more and more frequently.”
Sounds like a nice family. It will be nice for the daughter to be in a non-country fleeing teen touching home
There are cases where teen boys rape adults, usually adults known to them. It is an extreme act of violence. Those are some seriously damaged kids to lash out with such criminal behavior. Of course we need to remove that child from society. He is too disturbed to safely be among civilized people. But it's a tragedy for more than the victim. A child has to be very badly treated to be made disturbed enough to commit such an act of violence.
On the topic of boys in general, this society is far too rough on boys. They definitely get the short end of the stick in many ways. Girls are generally protected, encouraged to be aware of their own feelings and communicate them. Boys are expected to act like men long before they are able. And once they look like men at 14 or 15, forget it, mercy, protection and guidance are a thing of the past.
It shocks me how we keep talking about how kids made choices and are responsible for their actions. Kids can only be responsible for decisions where they had the skills to possibly make a good decision. If your 16 year old leaves his clothes on the floor or food on the counter, then he is damn well fully responsible for his decison and should be held accountable. If he fails to show up to a babysitting job at the neighbors, he should reap the full force of the repurcussions. But do not expect a 16 year old to be able to be reponsible for intercourse because he or she is not equipped with anything but drive and hope.
And to hold a 13 year old depending on the guidance of a trusted adult responsible? It's ludicrous.
Do you all remember being teens? Even if you weren't the door-slamming, screaming type, I guarantee you were confused, easily upset, and made poor decisions as often as you made good ones. They're just kids all strung out on hormones and emotions they're not used to working with. They think they're grown. We KNOW better.
My daughter insisted she was grown at 16. Now that she's 20 and out in the world, she realizes she's just a kid still. It's that 15-17 age, where they're sure they're big shots, that we have to protect them the most.
Kids are malleable and they have no idea how to interpret or act on their feelings.
This girl saw a cute guy. He liked her. He told her she was hot. He wanted to spend time with her. He was older. Awesome. Means she must be pretty cool and mature too. He was so cute and he made her feel so desirable and grown that those feelings must be True Love.
Kids think and feel like kids.
I'm working with a 19 year old who went out with a 28 year old high school teacher this year. The teenager makes clear to me she in no way feels like a victim or is blaming the teacher. But she is hurt, feels very bad about herself. She doesn't understand, tells me she was not "true to herself." She has "no idea how it happened." And she keeps kicking herself. Now this girl is extremely mature and well-adjusted. She is light years beyond many of her peers. Insightful, in touch with herself, confident, very intelligent. She felt pretty grown. Her thought process was not much different than the 14 year old above.
As I understand it, pretty much all girls must have a similarly hurtful and confusing experience with an older man who wants to get with someone innocent and as yet unjaded by, well, men like him. And our society tells him it's perfectly fine, go ahead, enjoy. I get the sense these men truly don't know the harm they're doing because we constantly defend it as a "freedom" we don't want to talk about in terms that sound judgemental. So a high school teacher gives a consent-age teenager who is not his student a lesson that men are kind of icky and not to be trusted much, and we can't say anything about it because we've wrapped ourselves up in justifications.
Oh, the 19 year old is in love with her best friend at college now, trying to put the older guy behind her.
Now im 18,but i still luv older girls!
I hope they free kesley peterson she is innocent and the boy is NOT a victim!
NOBODY is a victim both parties consented!
"BiG DEAL iTS LEXiNGTON"
LEXiNGTON iS NOT A BAD PLACE
AT ALL!.! ND JUST KUZ SHE WAS FRM HERE DNT MEAN WE ARE ALL LiKE DAT!.
i MEAN EVERYONE MAKES STUPiD MiSTAKES ND
YEA MAYB HER'S WAS BiGGER THAN MOST OF
OTHERS BT SERiOUSLi STOP JUDGiNG OTHERS
ND LUK AT URSELF.
DNT B STUPiD ND PUTTiNG COMMENTS YU DNT NEED TO PUT THERE.
MS. PETERSON WAS Mi 6th GRADE TEACHER
TOO. ND WE ALL KNE iT WULD HAPPEN SOONER
OR LATER. SO W-E iT HAPPENED SO GET OVER iT.